Adventures in Hide Glue

And we're off! Well, I already started, but I was waiting for he camera battery to charge a bit.  Well, and I needed to start to have something to write.  And Lucia has been all Cattus Interruptus.  Yes, I named my cat after my ren faire persona.  The other one is Wilburforce, but he's apparently napping or something.

Why?
As seen in previous posts, I want to make an Italian Renaissance dress from the end of the 1500s, and those things had some stiffness to them, but also especially with the Italians they moved with the body curve more.  I've made garments with metal boning and canvas and zip ties and lumber bundle straps and weak buckram, and some of those options are ok, but something seemed off.

In looking at what I want to do, I came across Anea's conversation about possible uses of corsets or (probably) not, boning and other options.  The pertinent part is here:

"The bodice was stiffened by two layers of padded linen hardened with (probably animal) glue placed between the outer fabric and the taffeta lining, and it had a wide, square neckline typical of Italian Renaissance dresses" (my translation of a passage from page 321 in the book "I della Rovere"). 

Then in her Roman Dress Diary (which you should go read anyhow along with the research page about the dress because it's awesomefun - especially during a time of heightened papal awareness) there is this:

Sometimes the bodices were supported further; "Moda a Firenze" mentions"cardboard (in) a typically Spanish system" (Landini 2005: 88pp), while reports on the funeral dress of Giulia Varano mentions a layer of linen stiffened with animal glue. As historical cardboard often was made of linen fibers and animal glue, I suspect it's was a kind of cardboard they used in Giulia Varano's dress as well.

But what is "Spanish system"? No-one knows. They might have used strips of cardboard similar to modern boning, or they might have used whole pieces. They might have fused it together with the wool felt, or as a separate piece. So stiffening my dress bodice with cardboard was mostly guesswork and might not be how they made it at all.

I cut the main shapes of the bodice in black cotton,and a double layer of each. I then cut black wool felt into the same shape, and stitched this together with one of the cotton layers. Next was to cut the linen cardboard into the same shape. This was sandwiched between the two cotton layers. The cardboard was way too stiff and thick to be sewn in, so I stitched the cotton layers together, holding the cardboard in place. I then added the black velvet over this stiff frame, on top of the black wool felt. The sides has a strip of fabric only, no cardboard, so metal eyelets could be inserted. The eyelets were bound with a thick, black thread, to secure the eyelets and to better let them blend with the velvet. 

She apparently used purchased linen cardboard already made (no, I haven't written her), but I'm figuring that at the time scraps of linnen fabrics - or more likely a linen pulp made out of scraps - was mixed with glue and made into a somewhat thin strip held together by hide glue.  Since I'm not in the mood to pulp up a bunch of fabric, I'm experimenting with already made fabric.

The Kitchen:
The house came with the job, and I lucked out with this tall bar that is perfect for doing things while standing.  I also have a cutting board I can put on it.  And yes, I did artfully neglect to include the mess around this spot.  And that's a Buddha face on the left.

The Set-up:
- electric fondue pot a little closer to Simmer than Warm so it's at the 145* recommended on the hide glue can
- a pottery bowl sitting in water in the fondue pot all double boiler style.
- wax paper out on the counter onto which I've written ratios that I am guesstimating, so that should be useful
- a plastic spoon

Fabrics (don't judge - these we're ones I didn't want due to dying failures):
-an old cotton sheet so pretty thin
- a moderate weight former green number which seems rather cotton
- a former pink tweed that is actually quite thick like a felt, but has a rather open weave but is quite flexible unlike felt

Smell:
Doesn't seem too bad, but I'm in my closed off kitchen with cross windows open (it might be 40 outside but probably not).  Then again when I'm not in the breeze there is something funky going on and my throat is kind of closing funny. Glad my kitchen has a door

Experiment parameters (I never did this much work for any science fair, btw):
- 1 part glue to 1 part water (consistency of warm honey) for each of the 3 fabrics.  That's the one pictured above, btw.
- 1 part glue to something like 3 parts water
- 1 part glue to rather 10 parts water or just really watery

Boning?
To make it interesting I have some squares that are just the square to put glue on, but I also have an alternate square for the two lighter strengths and have a like of the 1:1 down a side and at a diagonal.

For the record, I didn't use that paint brush, but did spoon the 1:1 on.  The 1:3 also needed to be spooned on, but the 1:10 I dipped in the solution and let it drip off thus achieving more even coverage.

Shots so far:

The 1:1 pile.  This stuff is surprisingly not sticky - especially after it's cooled to "gummy."

Check out all that overhang on the 1:1.  I pealed it off later since it really was like very solid gelatin.  And you can see that it's shiny.  Really shiny.  That sucker is coated on both sides.

And here is the current carnage.  Thinking that the thick, red fabric will work the best I did a larger one of that in the 1:3, and I did one of each weight of fabric for the 1:10 just because it seemed like a good idea and would use up more glue so that I had minimal to one left.  Bowl seemed to clean out nicely, btw, but we shall see.

The wax paper was good for the higher concentrations, but was reacting to the moisture level of the other strengths.  It is easy enough to pick up and turn over the squares after they turn to their jelly-state. Also, the can says that the glue is a skin irritant, but i just notice that my hands are a bit drier.

Initial Impressions:
-I did not expect this to be so much like jello jigglers and squishy and gummy feeling.
-Is this really going to work?
-I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing whatthehell...

ok, making a list of the 4 layers and 3 extra accessories for this competition thingie:

the 4 layers
1. camicia (made out of old, white sheets and some lovely old lace)
2. brown sotanna (underdress/kirtle, whatever)  with side back lacing, stiffened hem and dip in the front (which makes sense to me at least)
3. buff colored veste which we are going to pretend is made out of wool and not really faux suede yes we are because mama ain't buying new fabric if she can help it
4. we're gonna need a fancy ruff for this baby (this also counts as the first of 4 accessories if i read the instructions correctly.

(yeah, cause i'm not expecting to move by september or anything...)

instructions are here:

Your outfit to be made up as follows:

Layer 1: A camicia/shift/smock/shirt or drawers or corset/pair of bodies. I don't expect you to make all three, however one item MUST be an underwear layer.

Layer 2: Either an underskirt or under-dress/petticoat, or doublet and slops. 

Layer 3: The final layer will be either an over-dress, or a loose gown, or a cloak/cape. 

Layer 4: An accessory or accessories to a maximum number of 4 items/set of items: fan, pocket/pouch, hat/jewelled accessory for the hair, zibellino (also known as a "flea fur"), hanky, gloves, girdle, shoes, partlet, a set of Venetian shoulder/neck ruffs (if they are separate from the partlet), standing ruff/collar, parasol, and muff.

Limitation of Layer 4 items/accessories. In the past two IRCCs the quantity of Layer 4 items wasn't limited but in future will be limited to 4 items only. A set of bracelets will be counted as 1 item, as will a set of earrings, a set of hairpins, a set of necklaces, set of Venetian shoulder and neck ruffs (if not attached to a partlet), a sewing kit. Anything else you wish to enter and are not sure if it will be counted as one item please e-mail me to ask in advance of registering for the Challenge.

so there.

ok, and 3 more accessories:
2) maybe a gold veil roman style?  and maybe a little pearl to go on it la velata style?  woo!  brown sleeves would need to be made.  and yes, i know brown wasn't the color to use, but whateves.
3) i have this fabulous fabric that is super open and airy that wold make a great partlet.  not good for anything else anyhow.  and yes, it may be something that i bought in high school, was made into a shirt till it was discovered that the armholes weren't big enough and now 15 years later i pulled it apart.
4) uh.... crap idk.  pocket?

but here's where we get extra credit:
10 points for each inclusion of HANDWORK other than sewing straight seams, ie: hand-made lace, buttons, embroidery, weaving, shoes, use of fur (real or faux) to create/line a garment or accessory.

so, the sotanna will be done completely out of hand with hide glue stiffening for the inner-layer which may or may not get me extra points (though i think it should, but hey).

i'm making buttons to go on the veste - wrapping those wooden beads.

i'll be doing finger weaving braid for the veste i do believe.  orange and gold strands should look nice.

i ain't making lace.  embroidery gives me a headache - oh, but i was considering it for the camicia.  not this time probably.

and i have some faux fur, but i don't know how to use it at this point.

oh!  i was going to make and maybe embroider an apron for the #4 accessory.  ok, that's settled.

so there's some decision made.  good.  and clearly i don't feel like working right now.  *sigh*  this should be fun, though.

to have the front of the kirtle kept at the waist or dip below which would be more comfortable and prettier but would risk bending.

a lot is going to depend upon the upcoming hide glue experiment...

veste and other things

ok, so i finally figured out how to get the comments section to show up which turned out to be fairly simple, but i totally redid the blog template before figuring out what the problem was.  so yay.

anyhow, time for another brain dump about this project.  there are lots of little parts, and it's helpful to have them all in one place like this.

the over-all concept is probably something i should go over.  i'm wondering, when a woman woke up on a regular day (aka not a portrait-sitting day) what did she reach for to put on?  i'm looking in the area around florence, which seems to be fairly standard for the area (rome being populated by celibate men, and venice being all up in it's own thing).  the timeline i'm looking at starts with between mid 1500s to the 1640s for the under-dress described below, and in the later 1500s for the veste.  i'm also being under-developed for decorations.  i'll probably do embroidery on the camicia (to be discussed later), and i have lace to use, but

the outer layer i'm going for is the veste.  if you want to know where the hell all this lingo stuff comes from, i'm getting it from this ridiculously helpful site.  there are very few examples of people who have made these - especially like i'm looking at.  oh, and i have yet to seen the ruff done well.  it's a different shape, and i have no idea if it's attached to the camicia (which i may or may not be spelling correctly today) or if it's attached to a partlet.  and people say that the veste was warn without a full dress of a kirtle or whatever underneath, but i'm thinking there must have at least been a corset or something and not just a camicia and then the veste.  well, unless they all had tiny titties that didn't need held up ever at all.  which i doubt. especially since skinny apparently wasn't the desired look like it is now.  Young Boy isn't the most feminine of silhouettes (i'm looking at you, modern fashion designers).

here are some vestes:

maybe laudomia de' Medici by Allori, Alessandro

i think this is actually even the main image i want to work from.  why?  cause i have a bunch of buff fake suede that would work for this.  yeah, i know that in no way whatsoever that's a period fabric, but i own it, so i'm doing it.  so there.  Good Enough and Free are the main concepts in this choice of fabrics.

more vestes:

same guy painting bianca cappello

his portrait of a noble woman

maybe maria de' medici

another random chick

ok, this one is a little overdressed
(and i know hat this site has re-productions, but still interesting and i can image search later)

lucrezia de medici

this might be bianca capello in beautiful buttersccotch

random chick with a nice partlet close-up

who knows but she's associated with the artist

allori's maria de' medici or some other medici - who knows?

chick with a dog (that looks like a cat hybrid somehow) by allori

nice partlet

it is increasingly clear that i need to study allori more since i haven't even gotten past paintings attributed to him on this here post.  hm.

ok, so one from a follower of bronzinio:

no idea yet who did this of eleonora of toledo:

and i think that's enough for now.  hell, i need to go make dinner anyhow.  so... veste.  good times.

and while this site didn't put up all these pictures to figure out the clothing, she has basically the same set as i put up here.  nice.  too bad i didn't find this first.

the base

hi.  i need to organize my thoughts.  so here you go if you're joining me on the journey.

so, i've decided to enter a contest to make historical italian clothing.  oh look, it's here.  it's supposed to go to 1610, but some of the good clothing that i've found has better portrayals in later dates.  so we're composing stuff together here.

i would like to start out with what seems to be the dark-wash, straight-leg jeans of italian women everywhere (or at least in several places for most of the 1500 into the 1600s): the brown sottana (glossary link on left).  so i want to start making that.  while this is from a later date, it's all over.

by  by orazio gentileschi (1563 - 1639):    

two women with a mirror (date unknown)

the madonna

mary magdaline

in reds:

rest on the flight to egypt (1628)

saint cecelia and an angel

lute lady:

lute player (1626)

various possible helps:

finding moses

but this sottana had been around for a while.

jacopo bassiano (1510 - 1592)

the road to calvary, 1575

paolo veronese (1528 - 1588)

st. helena vision of the cross, 1570

caravaggio had them all over the place and surely was in the right timeline i'm looking at.

caravaggio (1571 - 1610)

judith, 1599

st. catherine of alexandria, 1599 (busy year)

and i love this one:

the conversion of mary magdalen, 1598 - 1599

so that's a start.  that's the base garmet and some permutations.  it could be laced under the arms or side back, and i think that i'll pick what seems to be less common and do the side back because it's easier to tie each lace in the back under the skirt.  so.... start.  more later.  but i feel better for having all these in the same place.  yay.